Looking good 
"You,re only supposed to blow the bloody SLIDING doors off"
Founder of the 6 speed club
"You,re only supposed to blow the bloody SLIDING doors off"
Founder of the 6 speed club
Jennings restoration
- Thread starter colinthefox
- Start date
Tim: Actually it looks marginally worse than when I bought it. But I have the pleasure of knowing that it's "functionally sound" throughout. Now I can get to grips with the cosmetic bits.
Panky: I did wonder what to do with my spare 4203. Perhaps shoehorn it into a Ford Anglia.
Anyway, today was taken up with the search for that sucking leak.
I was looking at all the parts of the fuel system that are under negative pressure. That's the pipe from the tank to the sediment bowl, the sediment bowl itself, and the pipe from the sediment bowl to the lift pump. That's not a big search area, is it?
I got nowhere by waggling the manual lever on the pump, so I diverted the outlet from the lift pump into a jerry can.
Now I could pump away to my heart's content without cranking the engine. There was a stream of bubbles going up the pipe into the can![:0]
Then I replaced the sediment bowl with a length of clear pipe. Here's the stream of bubbles passing through.
That must mean that the leak is in the pipe from the tank to the sediment bowl. Ahhhhh yes. I had forgotten to fully tighten one of the joiners on the new section of pipe I'd put in. Doh!:I
Refitted the sediment bowl, but there was still a (reduced) stream of bubbles going into the can.[V]
I hunted round for a new rubber washer for the sediment bowl, so I fitted that.
Tried pumping again, still a stream of bubbles, but very much reduced.[!]
This is getting frustrating. The only possibilities left are the two joints on that last section of pipe.
Remade the joints, and hey presto..............No bubbles!!
Bled the system again.
No start.[}]
Bled the system again.
No start.[}]
By this time the battery was flat. [V]
Tried jumping off the leisure battery.
Once that was just about flat too I thought I'd run out of battery. Engine earth strap was smoking, as was the throttle spring (the other earth return!)
Then suddenly it started, ran perfectly, no lumpiness, perfect idle. Muchos squealing of fan belt, but let it squeal!
Spent the rest of the afternoon trundling up and down the drive. The clutch and all the gears work. All the electrics work. The brakes work. The steering works. Gradually the smokescreen cleared, and it was all getting quite civilised.
It's worth recapping here................. Although there were no diesel leaks showing up as drips, in fact there were THREE leaks letting air INTO a small section of the system, and crippling the engine. Although you have to be sooooooooooooooo pedantic with diesel systems, and they can be infuriating, they repay the work in smiles over the miles to come.
Commer PB Jennings
Panky: I did wonder what to do with my spare 4203. Perhaps shoehorn it into a Ford Anglia.
Anyway, today was taken up with the search for that sucking leak.
I was looking at all the parts of the fuel system that are under negative pressure. That's the pipe from the tank to the sediment bowl, the sediment bowl itself, and the pipe from the sediment bowl to the lift pump. That's not a big search area, is it?
I got nowhere by waggling the manual lever on the pump, so I diverted the outlet from the lift pump into a jerry can.
Now I could pump away to my heart's content without cranking the engine. There was a stream of bubbles going up the pipe into the can![:0]
Then I replaced the sediment bowl with a length of clear pipe. Here's the stream of bubbles passing through.
That must mean that the leak is in the pipe from the tank to the sediment bowl. Ahhhhh yes. I had forgotten to fully tighten one of the joiners on the new section of pipe I'd put in. Doh!:I
Refitted the sediment bowl, but there was still a (reduced) stream of bubbles going into the can.[V]
I hunted round for a new rubber washer for the sediment bowl, so I fitted that.
Tried pumping again, still a stream of bubbles, but very much reduced.[
!]This is getting frustrating. The only possibilities left are the two joints on that last section of pipe.
Remade the joints, and hey presto..............No bubbles!!
Bled the system again.
No start.[}
]Bled the system again.
No start.[}
]By this time the battery was flat. [V]
Tried jumping off the leisure battery.
Once that was just about flat too I thought I'd run out of battery. Engine earth strap was smoking, as was the throttle spring (the other earth return!)
Then suddenly it started, ran perfectly, no lumpiness, perfect idle. Muchos squealing of fan belt, but let it squeal!
Spent the rest of the afternoon trundling up and down the drive. The clutch and all the gears work. All the electrics work. The brakes work. The steering works. Gradually the smokescreen cleared, and it was all getting quite civilised.
It's worth recapping here................. Although there were no diesel leaks showing up as drips, in fact there were THREE leaks letting air INTO a small section of the system, and crippling the engine. Although you have to be sooooooooooooooo pedantic with diesel systems, and they can be infuriating, they repay the work in smiles over the miles to come.
Commer PB Jennings
Well done [8D]
"You,re only supposed to blow the bloody SLIDING doors off"
Founder of the 6 speed club
"You,re only supposed to blow the bloody SLIDING doors off"
Founder of the 6 speed club
Thanks for your support guys!
I'm pleased to report that it starts "on the button" now, every time.
Commer PB Jennings
I'm pleased to report that it starts "on the button" now, every time.
Commer PB Jennings
Nice to have the forum back.
Panky: When we had an all Petrol fleet, I was clueless about the dark workings of oil burners, now
we're all diesel, (and a good deal of learning later) I wouldn't go back. It would be different if I did
more city driving though.
Anyway...........A few odd jobs to do down under.
The spare wheel carrier.
I strengthened the hinge fixings and the overcentre catch, as I've read that they have a tendancy to come
apart. It had also been hitched up to the chassis in a way that prevented it working at all. Strange. I also
added a big safety chain.
Engine reaction rod.
I added a strut from the gearbox mount to the engine/gearbox adaptor plate, to prevent the engine
shunting forward under braking. Not my idea, this one. My Karrier Bantam has one of these. The
washers and rubbers are "upcycled" from the old front shock absorbers.
Now on to the front valance. Gave it a poke, and found the thickest bit of filler so far.
The inner valance is ropey for a few inches at the bottom. I did the work in sections so that I would
have plenty of old metal left to measure against. As my patterns are made from A4 size sheets, my
replacement sections are about a foot long.
Here's the three near side sections just lightly tacked in place, because I want to trial fit the outer
valance before I fix them any more.
A trial fit of the new outer valance.
Note the differences between old and new. It's a rather unconventional join line between the two, but
there's method in my madness. Most of the weld will be just under the bottom flute, and behind the
grille. That will leave a couple of inches of visible weld line between the bottom of the grille and the
bumper line. That way I get to keep the original factory flutes, and the weld line won't be "in yer face"
right across the front. I'm happy to take the risk of a poor fit under the grille. Anyone want a set of
flutes without the rest of the valance?
Then the offside was done in similar fashion, this time trial fitting the air duct as well to make sure it
would all fit OK.Anyway, trial fit done and inner valance adjusted to fit, so it was all welded up.
Then a coat of primer.
I'll leave the outer valances till later. I'll be doing a lot of work further up, and don't want to fill the gap
with debris. But at least I know they'll fit OK.
Onwards............The screen was cut out. I was expecting to have to do some work here.
.........and wasn't disappointed then! Here's the first couple of sections pieced in. The weld line will be
(just!) behind the screen rubber.
There were a few localised pinholes above the N/S washer jet, so I jammed a copper sheet against the
back, and MIGed the holes up. An expensive way of casting sheet metal!
Now I've just discovered the limit of ten picsw per post, so I'll copy and paste the rest of this post into.........................
Panky: When we had an all Petrol fleet, I was clueless about the dark workings of oil burners, now
we're all diesel, (and a good deal of learning later) I wouldn't go back. It would be different if I did
more city driving though.
Anyway...........A few odd jobs to do down under.
The spare wheel carrier.
I strengthened the hinge fixings and the overcentre catch, as I've read that they have a tendancy to come
apart. It had also been hitched up to the chassis in a way that prevented it working at all. Strange. I also
added a big safety chain.
Engine reaction rod.
I added a strut from the gearbox mount to the engine/gearbox adaptor plate, to prevent the engine
shunting forward under braking. Not my idea, this one. My Karrier Bantam has one of these. The
washers and rubbers are "upcycled" from the old front shock absorbers.
Now on to the front valance. Gave it a poke, and found the thickest bit of filler so far.
The inner valance is ropey for a few inches at the bottom. I did the work in sections so that I would
have plenty of old metal left to measure against. As my patterns are made from A4 size sheets, my
replacement sections are about a foot long.
Here's the three near side sections just lightly tacked in place, because I want to trial fit the outer
valance before I fix them any more.
A trial fit of the new outer valance.
Note the differences between old and new. It's a rather unconventional join line between the two, but
there's method in my madness. Most of the weld will be just under the bottom flute, and behind the
grille. That will leave a couple of inches of visible weld line between the bottom of the grille and the
bumper line. That way I get to keep the original factory flutes, and the weld line won't be "in yer face"
right across the front. I'm happy to take the risk of a poor fit under the grille. Anyone want a set of
flutes without the rest of the valance?
Then the offside was done in similar fashion, this time trial fitting the air duct as well to make sure it
would all fit OK.Anyway, trial fit done and inner valance adjusted to fit, so it was all welded up.
Then a coat of primer.
I'll leave the outer valances till later. I'll be doing a lot of work further up, and don't want to fill the gap
with debris. But at least I know they'll fit OK.
Onwards............The screen was cut out. I was expecting to have to do some work here.
.........and wasn't disappointed then! Here's the first couple of sections pieced in. The weld line will be
(just!) behind the screen rubber.
There were a few localised pinholes above the N/S washer jet, so I jammed a copper sheet against the
back, and MIGed the holes up. An expensive way of casting sheet metal!
Now I've just discovered the limit of ten picsw per post, so I'll copy and paste the rest of this post into.........................
............................this one
I rummaged around in my toolbox, and found an old body file, which worked a treat to finally smooth
the metal.
Although it looked OK from the outside, the panel seam below the screen was rotten in places, and
there was no way I was going to rip that lot out. So much against my better judgement, I raked out all
the sealant, and fillet welded all along the outside and ground it all back. It took ages to grind, and I
had to rig up a special big work light, but in the end I was glad I tackled it, and it looks pretty good.
The next exciting episode will concentrate on screen pillars and gutters..........
I rummaged around in my toolbox, and found an old body file, which worked a treat to finally smooth
the metal.
Although it looked OK from the outside, the panel seam below the screen was rotten in places, and
there was no way I was going to rip that lot out. So much against my better judgement, I raked out all
the sealant, and fillet welded all along the outside and ground it all back. It took ages to grind, and I
had to rig up a special big work light, but in the end I was glad I tackled it, and it looks pretty good.
The next exciting episode will concentrate on screen pillars and gutters..........
I've not heard about jamming a piece of copper behind the metal when filling pinholes with Mig. Can you explain a bit more please, this could be a very handy hint.
Renaultvation: It's as simple as it sounds. Clamp a sheet of copper behind your steel and build up the edges of your hole. First melt the edges with very short bursts, then when the edges are thick enough, fill the hole with weld. It won't stick to the copper, which acts as a mould for the weld metal.
OK............screen pillars
I've cut away the rotten part of the screen pillar but left the bit nearer the screen. By leaving this in place I get a very accurate line for the new piece, and the join will be behind the rubber again. I generally only cut out the bit I'm going to do next so as not to lose the body line.
This is the new section of gutter plug welded to the A pillar.
Then a couple of new sections as far down as the join line.
Below the join line there is a small curved section of gutter and a patch of body that needs replacing.
A bit enthusiastic with Mr Angry there! Anyway, the gutter section was made starting with the outside.
then welded to an inner section.
Then plug welded in and a body section added. This was plugged to the gutter from the back due to poor access from the front. Here it is all welded up and given a coat of etch primer. (Etch primer for the outside, and red oxide primer for the backs of panels which won't get sprayed)
There's an awkward little blob of weld inside the gutter which I'm afraid to grind back as it only takes a touch with the grinder to ruin a gutter edge!
OK............screen pillars
I've cut away the rotten part of the screen pillar but left the bit nearer the screen. By leaving this in place I get a very accurate line for the new piece, and the join will be behind the rubber again. I generally only cut out the bit I'm going to do next so as not to lose the body line.
This is the new section of gutter plug welded to the A pillar.
Then a couple of new sections as far down as the join line.
Below the join line there is a small curved section of gutter and a patch of body that needs replacing.
A bit enthusiastic with Mr Angry there! Anyway, the gutter section was made starting with the outside.
then welded to an inner section.
Then plug welded in and a body section added. This was plugged to the gutter from the back due to poor access from the front. Here it is all welded up and given a coat of etch primer. (Etch primer for the outside, and red oxide primer for the backs of panels which won't get sprayed)
There's an awkward little blob of weld inside the gutter which I'm afraid to grind back as it only takes a touch with the grinder to ruin a gutter edge!
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And on and on............
The bottom of the gutters are rotten both sides, so a new bottom section was fabricated. This is the near side.
That's not rust, by the way, just a bit of stray primer. The bottom inch of the A pillar has been cut back, so this section will be plug welded to the new inner valance.
Next a new small section was added to the step panel under the door.
I've turned out my old panel joddler, but mostly it's quicker and just as effective to put the edge of the panel in the vice and give it a smack sideways with a hammer and brickies bolster.
Now the gutter section was plug welded back to this piece, and to the inner valance.
You can see that the step panel is a bit out of line, but it was soon bashed straight against a lump of steel.
Then the front valances were an easy fit, except for the ends, which had to be modified to fit. Here is the finished offfside, with the gutter section cut neatly in line with the bottom of the panels.
The join is mainly under the swage line, and behind the bumper. I've bolted the outer to the inner along the bottom, so the rust protection won't be compromised by welding.
It's good to be getting some panels buttoned up at last. I've been to see a "Spraying Man" so now I only have a few weeks to get it to the painting stage.
The bottom of the gutters are rotten both sides, so a new bottom section was fabricated. This is the near side.
That's not rust, by the way, just a bit of stray primer. The bottom inch of the A pillar has been cut back, so this section will be plug welded to the new inner valance.
Next a new small section was added to the step panel under the door.
I've turned out my old panel joddler, but mostly it's quicker and just as effective to put the edge of the panel in the vice and give it a smack sideways with a hammer and brickies bolster.
Now the gutter section was plug welded back to this piece, and to the inner valance.
You can see that the step panel is a bit out of line, but it was soon bashed straight against a lump of steel.
Then the front valances were an easy fit, except for the ends, which had to be modified to fit. Here is the finished offfside, with the gutter section cut neatly in line with the bottom of the panels.
The join is mainly under the swage line, and behind the bumper. I've bolted the outer to the inner along the bottom, so the rust protection won't be compromised by welding.
It's good to be getting some panels buttoned up at last. I've been to see a "Spraying Man" so now I only have a few weeks to get it to the painting stage.
Thank you for the explanation, it makes perfect sense. I will give it a go.
Tom: Yes, I was unsure whether I could do gutters. My method (found by trial and error).
On curved sections, first make a straight bit (wider than you need) of outer by turning over the edge by 5mm. Squash the fold dead flat in the vice, straighten it in both planes, then cut the whole thing to exactly the right width. Bend it to the right curve, then fix it temporarily in place with blutack. Make a cardboard template for the side of the gutter, cut out the steel, then tack it to the outer section and trial fit the whole lot. Once happy with the fit, weld the two sections together from the outside, making sure you have plenty of penetration through to the inside, cos your going to have to grind the weld back to a curve without it all splitting apart.
On straight sections, again start with a strip wider than you need, turn over 5mm, squash, straighten etc. Then fold the right angle. It helps if you use a 5mm wide strip of the same thickness steel next to the lip you have already turned over inside the bend (kind of difficult to explain) so you can get a sharper fold.
OK............Door bottoms
I forgot to take the right photos here. This is the new inner section tacked in place after a bit of tidying up of the inner skin. I left the remains of the old outer in place so I could get the inner in exactly the right place. Then I cut off the outer skin so that the join line would be right at the top of the second flute, so it wouldn't be right across the flat panel.
I've waxoiled all the joins on the inner section, as I won't be able to get to them later.
Then the new outer was welded in place...........
Slowly, and i used a desk fan to cool things down between welding sections.
Oh, forgot to say, before I cut anything, I made an accurate plywood template for the curve of the bottom of the door, and constantly checked the work against the template as I went along. It's surprising how many ways it can get out of shape as you work!
All welded up, and slight adjustments made to the shape with the rubber mallet, then a quick splash of etch primer.
I'm well pleased with that. The other door just has a few pinholes in the bottom flute, so I' m not going to fit a new skin, and the inner is near perfect. My plan is to epoxy and glass tissue the bottom flute, then make damned sure its all well sealed from the back, to stop the water bubbling through............That's the plan anyway.
Moving on to the peak. Only one side is rotten. More filler chopped out, revealing this.
Erm...........more welding needed, I think. Also the gutter above the n/s door was shot, and there's no way of welding it to the top of the door frame inside, so it will have to be plug welded to the outside
Anyway here's the bits fabricated and in place.
Now the batteries on my helmet are all but dead, (as are my eyes as a result!) so the plug welding will have to wait for the new batteries to arrive. And yes, I did remember to pull out all the wiring from the A pillar and door head before I did any work on this corner!
While the sun is still shining, I shall take the van outside, and turn my attention to the GRP roof moulding. I know it has had a long term leak (that's how all the rot got into the peak). Any bets on whether filler has been used there as well?
On curved sections, first make a straight bit (wider than you need) of outer by turning over the edge by 5mm. Squash the fold dead flat in the vice, straighten it in both planes, then cut the whole thing to exactly the right width. Bend it to the right curve, then fix it temporarily in place with blutack. Make a cardboard template for the side of the gutter, cut out the steel, then tack it to the outer section and trial fit the whole lot. Once happy with the fit, weld the two sections together from the outside, making sure you have plenty of penetration through to the inside, cos your going to have to grind the weld back to a curve without it all splitting apart.
On straight sections, again start with a strip wider than you need, turn over 5mm, squash, straighten etc. Then fold the right angle. It helps if you use a 5mm wide strip of the same thickness steel next to the lip you have already turned over inside the bend (kind of difficult to explain) so you can get a sharper fold.
OK............Door bottoms
I forgot to take the right photos here. This is the new inner section tacked in place after a bit of tidying up of the inner skin. I left the remains of the old outer in place so I could get the inner in exactly the right place. Then I cut off the outer skin so that the join line would be right at the top of the second flute, so it wouldn't be right across the flat panel.
I've waxoiled all the joins on the inner section, as I won't be able to get to them later.
Then the new outer was welded in place...........
Slowly, and i used a desk fan to cool things down between welding sections.
Oh, forgot to say, before I cut anything, I made an accurate plywood template for the curve of the bottom of the door, and constantly checked the work against the template as I went along. It's surprising how many ways it can get out of shape as you work!
All welded up, and slight adjustments made to the shape with the rubber mallet, then a quick splash of etch primer.
I'm well pleased with that. The other door just has a few pinholes in the bottom flute, so I' m not going to fit a new skin, and the inner is near perfect. My plan is to epoxy and glass tissue the bottom flute, then make damned sure its all well sealed from the back, to stop the water bubbling through............That's the plan anyway.
Moving on to the peak. Only one side is rotten. More filler chopped out, revealing this.
Erm...........more welding needed, I think. Also the gutter above the n/s door was shot, and there's no way of welding it to the top of the door frame inside, so it will have to be plug welded to the outside
Anyway here's the bits fabricated and in place.
Now the batteries on my helmet are all but dead, (as are my eyes as a result!) so the plug welding will have to wait for the new batteries to arrive. And yes, I did remember to pull out all the wiring from the A pillar and door head before I did any work on this corner!
While the sun is still shining, I shall take the van outside, and turn my attention to the GRP roof moulding. I know it has had a long term leak (that's how all the rot got into the peak). Any bets on whether filler has been used there as well?
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I already know the answer................
