Overdrive gearbox for Pootle?

Pootle's Owner

Pootle's Owner

Active Member
Hello all
The engine and gearbox on Pootle are OK though probably do need some refurbishment to counter oil leaks if nothing else!
I have bought a cheap old 1725 engine (from an Alpine I'm told) - has twin carb inlet manifold and Ali head at any rate.
I'll strip this and see how much effort/cost is need for a rebuild before deciding what to do.


engine2.PNG


Also considering this gearbox if it might be suitable?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rootes-O...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Anyone advise if this looks a suitable box?
Tony
 
The listing says it's from an early car so this should bolt straight onto your engine without any mods. You will need to source, or make, a cross member to match as well.
There's a few bits that need swapping from the Commer engine to your Alpine engine. nothing complicated jost bolt on external bits.
 
If you're engine refurbishing and want to stop the oil leaks then Trevor @ New Forest Gaskets does a full set of silicone gasket for the sump and rocker cover etc. I'm about to fit a set but they come highly recommended to me. Trevor also makes silicone gaskets for the thermostat housing and I'm already using those (on a rebuilt 'dry' engine) but again the quality seems bang on.

Trevor has a FB page
https://www.facebook.com/New-Forest-Gaskets-432140980651224/

or for non-FB folks his contact is 07808 166678

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Hello all
Well during the lock-in I'm trying to sort out the workshop so decided that now was a good time to strip the 'spare' Alpine engine to investigate rebuilding it for Pootle... On the plus side it is standard bore, the crank is good and hasn't been reground and the head looks pretty good too. Unfortunately after many years standing, two pistons were really seized and had to be removed by drilling loads of holes in them and bashing them out. In doing this I did gouge a small mark into one of the bores which will dictate the minimum overbore needed. So a few questions;
a) I have some original Rootes workshop manuals which state max overbore is +30 thou which seems rather small for an engine of that vintage? I have seen on t'internet that +40, +60 and even +90 pistons were available from Hepolite. Given my stupid, self created, damage I would think I probably need +40 but size I use depends more perhaps on what pistons I can get.
Does anyone have any input on this?
Given the vehicle we have and its age, I'm not after any particular performance increase over a standard Alpine 1725 but just want a fairly standard rebuild with no temperamental running characteristics. Can anyone advise on overbores possible and a source/make of pistons?
b) I will need lots of bits for the rebuild after the rebore including a full gasket set and standard shells for main and big-end bearings - any suggested suppliers?
c) The engine doesn't have any carbs but it has a dual manifold on the ali head. Given I need to buy something, what carbs should I go for?
d) When Tim can supply a new petrol tank I will fit one but, in the meantime I have silver soldered many patches on the original tank and that will be refitted temporarily. When the Alpine engine is rebuilt and a new tank fitted, is it worth replacing the mechanical fuel pump with an electric one? Would that be better or not a worthwhile change?
As the project progresses there will be many more opportunities for questions I'm sure....
Bye for now.
Tony
 
I've asked on the Sunbeam Rapier forum about the over bore size so hopefully someone will know on there (if you don't get an answer before). Your best bet for, the manifolds, is to get one of Martins combined inlet/exhaust tubular ones. This is designed to take a single HIF44 SU which is ideal for your engine when he right needle is used. You can use twins but the single SU is very easy to set up, gives good economy and very reliable.
 
I’ve got +40’s in mine without issue. Weirdly it increases compression apparently - I still
don’t get why.
Suppliers SpeedieSpares do a fair bit of stuff
Martin for exhaust and manifold kits (even does the full lot with carb) or buy a standard manifold and put a Webber on from Jon Green or finally a standard manifold and get a Tim conversion to SU. Twins are good but thirsty and need to keep them balanced.
 
Just got this reply on the Rapier forum

"Rootes Parts Service in the Netherlands is able to deliver pistons up to .050 inch overbore, so .040 inch shouldn't be a problem at all"

But as Jim suggests try Speedies first.
 
Thanks for the the input chaps.
I have honed the bores a little now to inspect the problem and it doesn't look too bad. The bores are standard and two of them could be honed and used, one bore only needs a light skim to clean it up so 20 thou would be fine but my thuggery removing piston from fourth pot will probably need a sleeve fitting I suspect. There seem to be pistons available from Speedy in Brighton or Rootesparts in Holland so I intend to get the block over SRS in Sutton for them to advise - I imagine sleeve one pot then rebore the four to +20 or +40 or whatever.
Assuming that works out I don't really see many problems with rebuild as the engine looks pretty simple compared to bike engines I have worked on in the past.
Might get to have a look at the cylinder head this afternoon but it's The Boss' birthday today so less garage work perhaps? Mind you, Pootle is her 'baby' so I do have that excuse! Helen's view on engine rebuild? Block needs to be painted British Racing Green to match the coachwork.... Better order some Tractol then....
TTFN
Tony
P.S. Wonder if Tim could do a bit of ali welding on this piston?Pistnbroke.jpg
 
Well the block is ready to go for rebore and possible sleeve on pot 1 so decided to look at the alloy head..... Bad news unfortunately and it is badly corroded with a 'rust' hole between the themostat area and the first inlet valve so now I need to find a replacement. There are some on ebay but now isn't the best time to travel around for such things!
 
Well engine has been rebored and mostly reassembled now. Speedy is closed at the moment so all bits have come from Holland and delivery has been great. Only problem so far is new sump gaskets don't fit and are about 4mm too short which is scareyly bad. Packaging is old so perhaps they have shrunk because no-one could ever imagine them fitting. Not sure what to do to get replacements. Anyone used the silicone ones from New Forrest? How much does a set cost? Today I collected the skimmed head and will rebuild that tomorrow so whole job should be done soon if I can sort gasket problems. Bigger issue will be getting old engine out then new one in I fear....... Once engine replaced I'll think about refurbing and replacing the gearbox with overdrive unit....
 
Tony is now reassembling the engine but, like a true engineer, has a bit left over. He has asked me to ask the fount of all knowledge (Commer van fan) whether this is part of the engine or something he just had lying about the garage. leftover spring 1.jpgleftover spring 2.jpg
 
It could be the spring out of the oil pressure relief valve situated behind the hexagon plug in the filter housing. Can't think of anything else of that size.
 
Well I have checked the oil pressure valve and that is all complete and working with its spring in its brass tube/housing so it's not from there.
I suspect it has gotten into the engine parts through carelessness to be honest and I'm sure it isn't something vital I have forgotten.
- Whilst doing the engine rebuild I have also purged some of the old crap from the workshop including a load of old spares for the lathe that will never be needed and the spring reminds me of something off that...
Engine 99% complete now and just awaiting some stainless bolts to replace some of the old rusty stuff...
Next challenge will be doing the engine swap -no problem getting the old one out as I could dismantle it in-situ if needed but I am concerned about getting the new one in through the passenger door. I can borrow a hoist but finding a flat space to do it could be a problem...
Does anyone know if a 2 Stromberg set of carbs on a flat Alpine manifold will fit in the bay without hacking the bodywork as it looks very tight....?
 
The carbs will go in but you may need to get imaginative with filters, as you say it's tight in there.
 
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