what servo?
- Thread starter old camper
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I am suffering from lizard brain after trying to do my accounts. But got this disc conundrum spinning round in my head. So sorry if I ramble.
Assuming I used the humber/merc caliper/disc combo which I,ve seen on here with the humber stub axle, does this run ok using the standard drum setup on the back all plugged together? And what have people done about the hand brake if so with this setup? Is it possible to mod the rear drum setup to accept the front hand brake mech?
I'm going to have a good dig around asap but as yet not had the rear brakes apart on any of them!
I notice the Merc calipers are easily available. So it might 'only' be the super snipe stub axles that will be the tricky bit in the conversion to acquire.
Tom
Assuming I used the humber/merc caliper/disc combo which I,ve seen on here with the humber stub axle, does this run ok using the standard drum setup on the back all plugged together? And what have people done about the hand brake if so with this setup? Is it possible to mod the rear drum setup to accept the front hand brake mech?
I'm going to have a good dig around asap but as yet not had the rear brakes apart on any of them!
I notice the Merc calipers are easily available. So it might 'only' be the super snipe stub axles that will be the tricky bit in the conversion to acquire.
Tom
Early models had the handbrake on the rear. The cylinders are the same except with additional levers placed in the slot in the cylinder, and there is a mechanism mounting on the axle - don't know the details of that. Obviously you will need the long cable too.
I know Bernie(Gladys Crew) has fitted Merc callipers to his Supersnipe but I'm pretty sure he used the original Snipe discs.
I know Bernie(Gladys Crew) has fitted Merc callipers to his Supersnipe but I'm pretty sure he used the original Snipe discs.
Hi there, that was the work I have done for my Commer, this link will take you to the beginning then I sort of took over the thread.
http://forum.commervanfan.co.uk/index.php?threads/the-disc-brake-conversion-thread.4573/
The conversion for my van is quite extreme for reasons I detail in the thread, however if you go to page 3, that's where I knocked up the RAV4 discs on the Commer Hubs, which didn't take long. As I mention, just need to find a suitable calliper and make a calliper mount, which isn't that hard. Look at my mega brake set up, the callioer mount is quite straight forward. I'd happily sort the balance of the RAV4 adaptation, but being on the other side of the world, suspect that you have numerous alternative calliper options available from cars that we never saw Down Under.
I am really surprised that someone didn't run with the RAV4 idea. With all the Commers in the UK, I could guarantee that a good front disc brake conversion is well over due and would be equally as popular as the Alloy fuel tanks, 6 speed gearboxes, SU manifold conversions and future free flow exhaust manifolds. In my opinion there isn't much point improving you performance/cruising speed, especially on the larger/heavier coach-builts if you can't stop the bloody things.
If any one has any questions or ideas on the topic, please respond to that thread so we keep all the ideas in the one place. Once I'm done with the wiring I'll be working on refitting the front suspension and fitting the mega brakes, but realisticly that won't be until our summer later in the year.
Cheers Stephen
http://forum.commervanfan.co.uk/index.php?threads/the-disc-brake-conversion-thread.4573/
The conversion for my van is quite extreme for reasons I detail in the thread, however if you go to page 3, that's where I knocked up the RAV4 discs on the Commer Hubs, which didn't take long. As I mention, just need to find a suitable calliper and make a calliper mount, which isn't that hard. Look at my mega brake set up, the callioer mount is quite straight forward. I'd happily sort the balance of the RAV4 adaptation, but being on the other side of the world, suspect that you have numerous alternative calliper options available from cars that we never saw Down Under.
I am really surprised that someone didn't run with the RAV4 idea. With all the Commers in the UK, I could guarantee that a good front disc brake conversion is well over due and would be equally as popular as the Alloy fuel tanks, 6 speed gearboxes, SU manifold conversions and future free flow exhaust manifolds. In my opinion there isn't much point improving you performance/cruising speed, especially on the larger/heavier coach-builts if you can't stop the bloody things.
If any one has any questions or ideas on the topic, please respond to that thread so we keep all the ideas in the one place. Once I'm done with the wiring I'll be working on refitting the front suspension and fitting the mega brakes, but realisticly that won't be until our summer later in the year.
Cheers Stephen
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I admire your drive for the greater good Stephen. A simple conversion with off the shelf parts should be doable with time I think. I can't commit right now but as I'm in a very hilly part of the country it is definitely something I will look at as I get the other 2 vans together.
I can get metal machined and have good CAD skills so think I'm up to the challenge... just all in good time!
Tom
I can get metal machined and have good CAD skills so think I'm up to the challenge... just all in good time!
Tom
Could I just inject a note of caution about connecting the handbrake to the back wheels.
Both Iceman and Myself have had issues with the security of the half shafts, potentially (actually in Icemans case I think) resulting in the brake drum leaving the shoes and rendering both back brakes and engine braking useless. At the time we speculated whether this was the reason they transferred the handbrake to the front. I think it's quite likely.
It didn't ought to happen, but the record shows that it does!
Both Iceman and Myself have had issues with the security of the half shafts, potentially (actually in Icemans case I think) resulting in the brake drum leaving the shoes and rendering both back brakes and engine braking useless. At the time we speculated whether this was the reason they transferred the handbrake to the front. I think it's quite likely.
It didn't ought to happen, but the record shows that it does!
I understand where you are coming from, however if the axles coming adrift was a common problem on the Commers I expect the factory would have addressed that issue at the time to stop it from happening, rather than leave the problem and just relocate the hand brake. If the axles coming adrift was a common problem we would all know about it, they've been on the road for 50+ years and people always remember things like that. Here's 2 easy examples, if I say Triumph Stag, just about everyone with some interest in cars will reply Overheating issues, and another, Fuel-injected Triumph's = Vaporisation issues. These problems were sorted out years ago, but everyone remembers the bad old days.
I just think we need to be conscious that our vans are getting quite old. The lock nut arrangement that holds the axle in place was most likely fine for traffic of the day, unfortunately as it can't be seen it's most likely never been looked at since the day the van was built. When you think about it if the split pin fails on the front hub the same thing could possibly happen with the front wheels. That's one of the benefits of disc brakes, if a bearing fails or the retaining nut somehow comes loose the calliper holds the disc in place. It may flop around and do some damage to the calliper and/or disc, but will hold the wheel and hub in place until you stop. Think it's just something that should be on the check list these days.
My thinking on the hand brake relocation is that it was moved to the front wheels for a couple of reasons. Firstly cost, as the cable is extremely long and suspect by moving it to the front they may have been able to use an existing cable off another Rootes vehicle. There's also the issue of cable stretch in a longer cable. Seizing and possibly freezing in winter may have also been an issue, I know my rear cable isn't like the modern plastic sealed/coated cable and was seized in place when I got the van. Secondly there is more weight over the front wheels in a standard Commer van, particularly the utes and the stripped down versions going out for Coach built bodies. This may have been considered a safer option for when a Commer was parked on a steep incline on some kerbside slushy snow, or even just trying to hold it in place on a car transporter so the driver can get out to tie it down without it sliding down the incline.
Just my thoughts on the matter, something for you to chew over at Commerfest.
Cheers Stephen
I just think we need to be conscious that our vans are getting quite old. The lock nut arrangement that holds the axle in place was most likely fine for traffic of the day, unfortunately as it can't be seen it's most likely never been looked at since the day the van was built. When you think about it if the split pin fails on the front hub the same thing could possibly happen with the front wheels. That's one of the benefits of disc brakes, if a bearing fails or the retaining nut somehow comes loose the calliper holds the disc in place. It may flop around and do some damage to the calliper and/or disc, but will hold the wheel and hub in place until you stop. Think it's just something that should be on the check list these days.
My thinking on the hand brake relocation is that it was moved to the front wheels for a couple of reasons. Firstly cost, as the cable is extremely long and suspect by moving it to the front they may have been able to use an existing cable off another Rootes vehicle. There's also the issue of cable stretch in a longer cable. Seizing and possibly freezing in winter may have also been an issue, I know my rear cable isn't like the modern plastic sealed/coated cable and was seized in place when I got the van. Secondly there is more weight over the front wheels in a standard Commer van, particularly the utes and the stripped down versions going out for Coach built bodies. This may have been considered a safer option for when a Commer was parked on a steep incline on some kerbside slushy snow, or even just trying to hold it in place on a car transporter so the driver can get out to tie it down without it sliding down the incline.
Just my thoughts on the matter, something for you to chew over at Commerfest.
Cheers Stephen
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Well having gone away and read and thought a bit I'm not so keen on the disc option after all. Although Martin did experience brake loss this was with the earlier smaller drums I think I read. Be good to know how much smaller these are.
As mentioned earlier in another thread perhaps, drums are common, or rather discs a rare on big trucks - why, because they are so much 'better'. At least at this end of the ball game. A disc set-up would require a serious disc and caliper combo to get equivalent braking power that a simple and cheap drum set-up achieves. Yes heat is a problem for drums but if your efficiency is better perhaps heat wont catch up so quickly compared to a small disc setup. As I said I lost brakes to heat on a disc setup early vw polo and that was on the level braking hard with an (over)loaded car.
In my mind I need hill safe brakes not super high performance stoppers.
Anyway i'm going to fit a servo and hit some Welsh hills haaaard and I'll report back. If you here nothing then I was wrong!
Tom
As mentioned earlier in another thread perhaps, drums are common, or rather discs a rare on big trucks - why, because they are so much 'better'. At least at this end of the ball game. A disc set-up would require a serious disc and caliper combo to get equivalent braking power that a simple and cheap drum set-up achieves. Yes heat is a problem for drums but if your efficiency is better perhaps heat wont catch up so quickly compared to a small disc setup. As I said I lost brakes to heat on a disc setup early vw polo and that was on the level braking hard with an (over)loaded car.
In my mind I need hill safe brakes not super high performance stoppers.
Anyway i'm going to fit a servo and hit some Welsh hills haaaard and I'll report back. If you here nothing then I was wrong!
Tom