to OD or not to OD?
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I don't understand what you mean
Right Gentlemen, back to the serious subject of prop shafts. This gets complicated so please concentrate
I've just been to see a prop shaft specialist in Bristol to get mine rebuilt. He had fine spline front yokes and rear flanges on the shelf, and I suspect he can get coarse spline ones too. In which case he could build any permutation of shaft. I'll ask him when I pick it up and report back here.
If all goes to plan, Jimberlakes old prop shaft (Coarse spline front with a rough sheath but otherwise OK) will be surplus to requirements, and I'll also have a useable one (Fine spline front end with a rough sheath and slightly slack yokes).
Jim. Will you be wanting your old one back? If you do I can get it to the Peak district next week.
I've just been to see a prop shaft specialist in Bristol to get mine rebuilt. He had fine spline front yokes and rear flanges on the shelf, and I suspect he can get coarse spline ones too. In which case he could build any permutation of shaft. I'll ask him when I pick it up and report back here.
If all goes to plan, Jimberlakes old prop shaft (Coarse spline front with a rough sheath but otherwise OK) will be surplus to requirements, and I'll also have a useable one (Fine spline front end with a rough sheath and slightly slack yokes).
Jim. Will you be wanting your old one back? If you do I can get it to the Peak district next week.
stable
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That is interesting - apologies I missed your earlier post. I think it will be a couple of weeks at least until I get started. I'm juggling options right now but a couple of boxes I am eyeing up look like good candidates. And if you can get a 'coarse' splined yoke that should keep me happy as they all seem to be course shafts so far. I can then get my local engineering firm to carry out any cut and shuts.
A price would be very interesting on that front yoke.
A price would be very interesting on that front yoke.
Wonder how your shaft looks then!? ooeerr!!!Soz, I get a bit excited sometimes
Ok back on track, was a tough day at work...i don't particularly want it Colin but as it was incorrect for you ill be happy to refund you if you do bring it back, depends what more hassle for you I guess.
Hi Jim
I'm not after a refund, but very kind of you to offer. I only mentioned it because my son is visting us this w/e and then heading back your way.
I reckon the most useful thing would be for me to change the rough front end for a new fine or coarse spline depending on what someone on here might want.
I'm not after a refund, but very kind of you to offer. I only mentioned it because my son is visting us this w/e and then heading back your way.
I reckon the most useful thing would be for me to change the rough front end for a new fine or coarse spline depending on what someone on here might want.
stable
0
Well bagged me a OD box for £100 although think it's a course splined variety. Seller looks like they have a prop to match so hopefully happy days. Lets hope it's a gooden!
Tom
p.s. can anyone point me to a suitable switch and relay - Panky you have me scared of 'new' relays??
although think it's a course splined variety. Seller looks like they have a prop to match so hopefully happy days. Lets hope it's a gooden!Tom
p.s. can anyone point me to a suitable switch and relay - Panky you have me scared of 'new' relays??
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Yep, you need to switch it off between changes but the inhibitor switch on the gearbox will still prevent the OD engaging in 1st, 2nd and reverse. I adapted a wooden gear knob to take an MGB switch so it's right there under your thumb for quick changes - you can just see it in this pic. Would be simpler to graft a complete MGB knob onto the Commer stick though.
I fitted a column stalk onto Bonnie, not sure which one I prefer.
I fitted a column stalk onto Bonnie, not sure which one I prefer.
Yes it will drop out with the momentary switch set up (gearbox inhibitor switch will see to that) but with the positive switch it will be disabled by the inhibitor switch in all other gears except 3rd and 4th but engage again in those gears if you don't switch the OD off. Word of warning OD and reverse is VERY bad
It has been known to wire in the OD direct without a relay, you just need a switch that will take the current, which isn't much. A lot simpler but I prefer using a relay.
It has been known to wire in the OD direct without a relay, you just need a switch that will take the current, which isn't much. A lot simpler but I prefer using a relay.
Wiring depends on which overdrive type you have.
For instance, mine is a J type, which works with just an ordinary switch in the cab, and the inhibitor switch on the gearbox. No relays involved, because the current draw is quite small.
Earlier D types had a much bigger current draw, and more complicated electrical wiring, which needed the relay. I have read that failure of "new" relays can be avoided by using an ordinary diode across the relay contacts to prevent arcing. I have no experience of D types, so can't help any more.
For instance, mine is a J type, which works with just an ordinary switch in the cab, and the inhibitor switch on the gearbox. No relays involved, because the current draw is quite small.
Earlier D types had a much bigger current draw, and more complicated electrical wiring, which needed the relay. I have read that failure of "new" relays can be avoided by using an ordinary diode across the relay contacts to prevent arcing. I have no experience of D types, so can't help any more.
Right..........................
I've been to the prop shaft specialist again. As my old prop had a slightly pitted sliding sleeve, loose yokes on the centre section, and bad UJs, the only bit I could reuse would be the rear flange! There didn't seem to be much point in that so I got them to make me up a shiny new prop shaft complete. I also came away with my old still useable shaft, and picked up a coarse splined sliding sleeve to repair Jim's old shaft. So I should now have THREE working prop shafts
Armed with what I learned from this, I've been thinking about how to demystify the whole prop shaft thing.
So...............Universal joints. There are only a few sizes of UJs used by the old British motor industry. They all come from the Spicer range. The ones with circlips on the outside of the cups are "Outside lock type" These are fully defined by two dimensions, firstly the distance between the ends of the caps, and secondly the diameter of the caps. Here are some of the most popular, with the ones I have found on Commers so far marked with an Asterisk:-
1100 series are 2.412 x 0.938* (Older shaft front end)
1210 series are 2.412 x 1.062
1300 series are 2.938 x 1.062* (Later shaft front and rear ends)
1310 series are 3.219 x 1.062* (Older shaft rear end)
Each series has various different types of lubrication. The only two types we need to be concerned with are:-
0 is "Sealed for life"
1 is "Single grease nipple in side of cross"
These are universally recognised types by all manufacturers and sellers of UJs. So...........ask for a 1300 seris UJ and specify the lubrication type and you'll get the right one. No need to ask for a UJ for a particular vehicle.
Once we know which UJ size we need, then we need to know the type of output shaft on the gearbox/overdrive.
Older ones are the 10 spline type (same as used on morris minors etc)
Newer ones are the 25 spline type (same as used on transit vans, so I'm told)
So, as far as I am aware at present there are only four possible types of front sliding sleeve applicable to Commers using standard gearboxes.
10 spline to 1100 UJ
10 spline to 1300 UJ
25 spline to 1100 UJ
25 spline to 1300UJ
You can take the same approach to the rear flange as well. Specify the UJ series, the flange diameter and the pitch circle diameter of the bolt holes, and you can order the correct flange.
The centre sections are made up of standard tube yokes, (which are all catalogue items) and a length of steel tube :-
Front UJ series yoke to suit shaft tube internal diameter.
A length of plain steel tube. Diameter doesen't matter too much.
Rear UJ series yoke to suit shaft tube internal diameter.
All these components are made by prop shaft component manufacturers like Bailey Morris Group who have an online catalogue. They have an online form for inputting all this information so you can specify any propshaft to go from any gearbox to any rear axle. Or you can go to a propshaft specialist like HJ Chard in Bristol who use BMG parts.
I've been to the prop shaft specialist again. As my old prop had a slightly pitted sliding sleeve, loose yokes on the centre section, and bad UJs, the only bit I could reuse would be the rear flange! There didn't seem to be much point in that so I got them to make me up a shiny new prop shaft complete. I also came away with my old still useable shaft, and picked up a coarse splined sliding sleeve to repair Jim's old shaft. So I should now have THREE working prop shafts
Armed with what I learned from this, I've been thinking about how to demystify the whole prop shaft thing.
So...............Universal joints. There are only a few sizes of UJs used by the old British motor industry. They all come from the Spicer range. The ones with circlips on the outside of the cups are "Outside lock type" These are fully defined by two dimensions, firstly the distance between the ends of the caps, and secondly the diameter of the caps. Here are some of the most popular, with the ones I have found on Commers so far marked with an Asterisk:-
1100 series are 2.412 x 0.938* (Older shaft front end)
1210 series are 2.412 x 1.062
1300 series are 2.938 x 1.062* (Later shaft front and rear ends)
1310 series are 3.219 x 1.062* (Older shaft rear end)
Each series has various different types of lubrication. The only two types we need to be concerned with are:-
0 is "Sealed for life"
1 is "Single grease nipple in side of cross"
These are universally recognised types by all manufacturers and sellers of UJs. So...........ask for a 1300 seris UJ and specify the lubrication type and you'll get the right one. No need to ask for a UJ for a particular vehicle.
Once we know which UJ size we need, then we need to know the type of output shaft on the gearbox/overdrive.
Older ones are the 10 spline type (same as used on morris minors etc)
Newer ones are the 25 spline type (same as used on transit vans, so I'm told)
So, as far as I am aware at present there are only four possible types of front sliding sleeve applicable to Commers using standard gearboxes.
10 spline to 1100 UJ
10 spline to 1300 UJ
25 spline to 1100 UJ
25 spline to 1300UJ
You can take the same approach to the rear flange as well. Specify the UJ series, the flange diameter and the pitch circle diameter of the bolt holes, and you can order the correct flange.
The centre sections are made up of standard tube yokes, (which are all catalogue items) and a length of steel tube :-
Front UJ series yoke to suit shaft tube internal diameter.
A length of plain steel tube. Diameter doesen't matter too much.
Rear UJ series yoke to suit shaft tube internal diameter.
All these components are made by prop shaft component manufacturers like Bailey Morris Group who have an online catalogue. They have an online form for inputting all this information so you can specify any propshaft to go from any gearbox to any rear axle. Or you can go to a propshaft specialist like HJ Chard in Bristol who use BMG parts.
That is brilliant information So the Morris sliding sleeve will fit the Commer coarse splined tail shaft, you could modify a Minor prop with a Commer rear flange to sort out your OD prop problem. Sounds like the issue of coarse splined props availability has been solved All we need now is a practical demonstration - pity I haven't got a spare.
So the Morris sliding sleeve will fit the Commer coarse splined tail shaft, you could modify a Minor prop with a Commer rear flange to sort out your OD prop problem. Sounds like the issue of coarse splined props availability has been solved All we need now is a practical demonstration - pity I haven't got a spare.