We tried with the back wheels jacked up first, 20 min later still stuck on, but that has freed it in the past so off my mate went kangeroo-ing up the road and just as it broke off I saw the water come flooding out.. So yes it's off so not an entire waste of a rad!! The annoying thing is I was off to the bodyshop with two front door skins kindly supplied by mr m so there gonna have to wait till next week now..