Our new free commer!!
- Thread starter gatt
- Start date
Welding spring steel is bad engineering, at best its a bodge and could be extremely dangerous.
spring steel is .7-.9% carbon which puts it in the not suitable for normal welding region. Mild steel welds will not miraculously turn into spring steel, what happens is the springs microstructure is adversely affected and the temper is lost in the heat affected zone, creating embrittlement. And as they are subjected to cyclic fatigue, a likely area for stress fracture. Add to that the fact that they are at least 40 years old and most likely pitted by corrosion already giving rise to potential stress raisers.
Sure the weld takes and they stick together and it looks fine, but x-ray or ultrasonic testing will reveal the true picture.
A better solution is a parabolic single leaf off a transit or similar.
not only will it lower by virtue of not being "a pack" but it will also respond better to smaller bumps.
"You,re only supposed to blow the bloody SLIDING doors off"
spring steel is .7-.9% carbon which puts it in the not suitable for normal welding region. Mild steel welds will not miraculously turn into spring steel, what happens is the springs microstructure is adversely affected and the temper is lost in the heat affected zone, creating embrittlement. And as they are subjected to cyclic fatigue, a likely area for stress fracture. Add to that the fact that they are at least 40 years old and most likely pitted by corrosion already giving rise to potential stress raisers.
Sure the weld takes and they stick together and it looks fine, but x-ray or ultrasonic testing will reveal the true picture.
A better solution is a parabolic single leaf off a transit or similar.
not only will it lower by virtue of not being "a pack" but it will also respond better to smaller bumps.
"You,re only supposed to blow the bloody SLIDING doors off"
So he flips the axle, which makes it too low and the diff hits, then puts longer shackles to raise it up slightly so the diff clears? How bad can that be? it seems to be common with the off road guys to raise their machines using lengthened shackles.
I have been trying to figure out what to do about lowering my commer (the way gatts has been done was one of the ideas i thought of) and the only other way i can think of is fitting shorter shackles to the commer (with redesigned mounts to provide clearance), would that be preferable? Alternatively flip the axle and then make new leaf spring mounts that sit closer to the ground (away from the van floor) to raise it up enough and still retain the safety of the original setup?
I have been trying to figure out what to do about lowering my commer (the way gatts has been done was one of the ideas i thought of) and the only other way i can think of is fitting shorter shackles to the commer (with redesigned mounts to provide clearance), would that be preferable? Alternatively flip the axle and then make new leaf spring mounts that sit closer to the ground (away from the van floor) to raise it up enough and still retain the safety of the original setup?
That image should show what i was getting at, would require some fabrication but could be a cheap and safe way round the lowering problems?
can you not just raise the road?
The Dog is on its way....
The Dog is on its way....
It puts the u bolts under excessive tensile stress, and the longer shackle gives less axle location.
"You,re only supposed to blow the bloody SLIDING doors off"
"You,re only supposed to blow the bloody SLIDING doors off"
With my idea the shackles are the originals, just the mountings for everything sits lower down to raise the van after flipping the axle. Could Beefier U bolts be used? Perhaps something intended for a landrover?
Yes beefier u bolts could be used. Just make sure the longer mount is well braced.
A better solution is dump the leaves and use coils
"You,re only supposed to blow the bloody SLIDING doors off"
A better solution is dump the leaves and use coils
"You,re only supposed to blow the bloody SLIDING doors off"
I had been toying with the idea to use a bmw rear diff setup and create an independant suspension system for it. I have a bmw 316 sitting here that im breaking so maybe i should try that? Main problem i can forsee is where to put the coils? I guess making a shock tower in my arches would be my best bet? The finding a suitable spring (i doubt the estate version will be stiff enough for a van, but a coilover spring/shock might just be ok) Then means i have a rear handbrake and i can convert the front to disc...
Just realised the bmw rear system is not coil over but this:
so if i was to make a similar subframe system like this:
I could make it bolt on bolt off, easy conversion to original pretty much if needed?
so if i was to make a similar subframe system like this:
I could make it bolt on bolt off, easy conversion to original pretty much if needed?
Much better [^]
"You,re only supposed to blow the bloody SLIDING doors off"
"You,re only supposed to blow the bloody SLIDING doors off"
why dont you just get shorter oils springs fitted to the front which will be easy enough to get, then fit some low profile tyres to the van all round, so you have that slight custom stance. im sure it will look lower even if its only a little. or you could always throw half a dozen bags of cement in the back haha.
Big Bad Woolf
Big Bad Woolf
Cheers for the info gatt
Im in 2 minds about this now, my original idea with flipping axle+increasing the height of the mounts looked to be a very cheap, quick and easy modification, but i still retain the old design which is very outdated and spare parts are only going to become increasingly more difficult and expensive to find.
The bmw idea, after running outside with my tape measure, looks to actually be very possible, and once a frame is built to support the subframe of the bmw system, i could make it work. The trouble is i dont know if the rear diff will be the correct ratio (or at least close enough to be suitable, its a 90bhp saloon car) and getting suitable rear springs (or perhaps using front shocks on the back that are designed to take the weight of a big engine?) will be a case of expensive trial and error. However i will then have superior rear brakes, far more spares available and they are cheaper! Would a saloons rear arms, etc be suitable to take the weight of the commer van+contents?
Im in 2 minds about this now, my original idea with flipping axle+increasing the height of the mounts looked to be a very cheap, quick and easy modification, but i still retain the old design which is very outdated and spare parts are only going to become increasingly more difficult and expensive to find.
The bmw idea, after running outside with my tape measure, looks to actually be very possible, and once a frame is built to support the subframe of the bmw system, i could make it work. The trouble is i dont know if the rear diff will be the correct ratio (or at least close enough to be suitable, its a 90bhp saloon car) and getting suitable rear springs (or perhaps using front shocks on the back that are designed to take the weight of a big engine?) will be a case of expensive trial and error. However i will then have superior rear brakes, far more spares available and they are cheaper! Would a saloons rear arms, etc be suitable to take the weight of the commer van+contents?
Correct me if im wrong but don't those guys want soemthing like £400 for 2 new springs to be made? If thats the case i would rather rather spend the money upgrading to a better system!
I shall give them a try worth a shot!
worth a shot!