Manifold Leak

Malcolmmer

Malcolmmer

0
Hi All,
Had a leak on the manifold gasket at the beginning of the year. Replaced with new gasket and everything was fine. Went to the Rootes Archive open day at the beginning of September and on the way back I am sure the manifold gasket is leaking again. It sounds the same as last time. I wondered if anybody else has had the same problem and how they fixed it. The van has only done about 1000 miles, probably less.
Any thoughts would be much appreciated..
Cheers Malcolm.
 
It could be that the manifold surface needs refacing. If there's a step between the inlet and outlet manifolds then it won't seal properly. is it the manifold face or the fire ring where the down pipe fits?
 
Used to have this problem (from where it attached to the block). My issue was the nuts loosening so changed them all to brass and sorted it
 
Thanks both for that. When we replaced the gasket earlier this year you could see marks on the old manifold gasket where it had been leaking, so I think it is a good bet the same thing has happened. It certainly sounds the same as before. When we replaced the gasket my mechanic had a feeling that we might have to bite the bullet and have the manifold/head refaced, but thought it was worth a try with a new gasket. If we go down that route I am thinking that I might have my original head, which I have still got, converted to unleaded, have the two faces skimmed as well as the manifold itself ( if that is possible). I haven't spoken to my mechanic yet to see what he thinks, so while I am waiting to hear from him I will take off the heat shield to get to the manifold nuts to check if they are tight. Got to be worth a try. If I have the head converted, any idea where the best place to get good head (Iron head) gaskets from. The manifold gasket we used last time was the one with a metalic type face, I may have a grey fibre type in the cupboard, any idea which is best.
Thanks again for your input. Cheers Malcolm
 
Getting the manifold faces skimmed would be an easy job for a decent machine shop. I usually resort to ebay for most things since the usual suppliers have stopped trading but they will be available elsewhere.

Here's a couple I found

www.ebay.co.uk

NEW to fit HILLMAN HUNTER VOGUE 1725 CYLINDER HEAD GASKET MOPROD VGH819 | eBay UK

HILLMAN HUNTER. SINGER VOGUE. CYLINDER HEAD GASKET. 1725cc CAST IRON HEAD. DODGE SPACEVAN.
www.ebay.co.uk


And he's another supplier


Generally I prefer composite head gaskets (I found them much more reliable on A series engines) but never found one for a Commer. The copper faced ones do the job fine but If you do have a decent composite one I'd try that.
 
Cheers Panky.
I have use Hillman spares before, but it is always good to have more sources. I did try the nuts this morning and managed to get a slight turn on them. I hoped it might have done the trick but unfortunately still the same. It looks like I will have to bite the bullet and have the manifold skimmed at least. Not sure whether to try that first before the bigger job of taking the head off to get that skimmed. I spoke to my mechanic this morning and unfortunately he is off work at the moment until he sees the doctor on Monday. Depending on that outcome as to where I go from here. Just as well I haven't got anymore trips planned at the moment.
Thanks again. Malcolm
 
I have had many cast iron exhaust manifolds which have warped so that the flanges aren't straight. Try putting a straight edge across them. You will easily see if they aren't straight. You can straighten them yourself by sticking a couple of sheets of wet and dry abrasive on a flat surface and rub, rub, rub the manifold till the flanges are level.
 
Thanks for that, all info much appreciated. Will see what my mechanic says after he has seen the doc next week to see if he is allowed back to work or whether it is going to be a long process. I am wondering if there is going to be a long delay whether to have a go myself. Do you think it would be just the manifold that would need refacing or the mating face of the head as well. If I have a go myself I think I would take it to a machine shop, using wet and dry sounds like a lot of hard work, something I try to avoid these days. Am I right in thinking you don't use any jointing paste on the manifold gasket.
Thanks again for all your advice. Much appreciated. Malcolm.
 
Hi All.
No progress with manifold blow yet, my mechanic is hoping to be allowed back to work next week depending on what doc says. He did come today to have a listen and he agrees with me that the gasket is blowing but also thinks the gasket between inlet and exhaust manifold also signs of blowing. I can get manifold/head gaskets no problem but no luck with the one between the manifolds and I wondered if anyone out there knows of a supplier. I may be able to get one made and have been in touch with the Rootes Archive to see if they have a drawing for it, which would help. the part number is 1208757.
Thanks again for any help. Malcolm
 
Gaskets are easy to make. Make a paper pattern tracing the shape with a "dirty finger rub" . Cut out with scissors. You can buy all sorts of gasket material in small bits on eBay, cheap enough to make a few mistakes.
 
Many thanks for that, much appreciated. I have been looking into getting gaskets made and have now received the original factory drawings from James at the Rootes Archive Centre which I have sent on to a couple of gasket companies so will see what response I get. I have also obtained a good quality Manifold/Head gasket from F W Thornton of Telford. They haven't got the gasket I want but they say they have got material I could make one out of but not sure what it would be like to work with and could I make it accurate enough to get a good seal. I didn't realize until I got the drawing from James that there is a flap inside for whatever that is there for.
Cheers Malcolm.
 
Forgot to ask, has anybody tried to get the inlet/exhaust manifold apart. Any tips how to achieve this. I wonder, if this gasket has corroded would it affect the running of the van. I tried to attach the drawing of the gasket if anybody is interested but I'm not clued up enough to achieve this.
 
It's unusual for the divider between the inlet an exhaust manifolds to leak, are you sure the guy didn't mean the compression ring where the down pipe is attached? If you do need to separate them make sure to give the studs a good dousing in release oil for several days before you attempt to undo them. It's very to likely result in sheared studs so be very careful and use plenty of heat.
The flap is to direct hot gasses onto the 'hot spot' on the inlet manifold, apparently to aid combustion and economy:rolleyes:
 
Thanks Panky.
He wasn't sure about a leak on this joint, just that there was a slight mark on the ceramic coating I had done years ago. Again he thought there might be a mark on the manifold/exhaust joint. In view of what you say about getting the manifold/manifold joint apart and the highly unlikely event that it would leak, I think that unless there is a definite sign of a leak when we take the manifold off to get the manifold/head joint skimmed we will leave well alone. With the manifold skimmed and a new gasket hopefully that will solve the problem. The manifold/ exhaust joint will be resealed on reassembly so that will sort that out. It was good to know what the flap on the joint was for.

Thanks again Panky, can always rely on you for good advice.
Cheers Malcolm
 
Hope you don't mind me popping up on here as I have a manifold question or two but first Malcolm , I did read in the manual that one should tighten both manifolds to head first befor tightening the two manifolds together . Which seems odd to me but they should know !
My questions (IF I can download some pics)
1/ I have three outlets on my inlet manifold , one is a pressure release valve just in front of the carb facing the engine with tube going to carb inlet box above the carb .
2/ Another on top of No4 inlet and this has a rubber pipe attached and runs to the front of the engine bay and out the bottom , there is a bolt in the end of this pipe , sealing it ! SO why is it like that or should I just remove it and put plug in the manifold ?
3/ There is another outlet on the outside flange joining the Exhaust manifold .
with a threaded hole in and open to the air on my manifold so should something be in there ??
Also , when replacing the manifold should I put gasket cement on both sides , one side or nothing ?
OOPS and lastely should there be gaskets each side of the deflector plate between the two manifolds .
Many thanks , have a good weekend , Ken
 

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I suspect your manifold doesn't originally come from a Commer engine but it's pretty much the same except for the two larger ports and the angle of the carb connection, does it have a Stromberg carb? The first one is more than likely a connection for a flame trap which you identified as a PRV unless there's a pollution control valve fitted, a picture would help identify it. The second one is a connection for a brake servo so if there isn't one fitted then blank it off at the manifold. The smaller one is a manifold drain - it usually has a small pipe pointing down so any residual fuel dribbles onto the hot exhaust to evaporate, very smelly and dodgy. Find a suitable bolt and block it off. As for deflector plate gaskets I'm not sure but any material must be able to withstand exhaust temperatures so a paper gaskets wouldn't be suitable. Maybe gaskets made from thin copper sheet would work or just try a smear of exhaust paste.
The idea of tightening the two halves last is to make sure the faces bolting to the head pulled up together and flat and even.
 
I think Panky has answered all your questions and he is far more knowledgeable on Commers than I will ever be (I have only had mine for 46 years so still early days when it comes to understanding them). I know it says in the workshop manual you should bolt up the manifold to head first and then the two manifolds but that assumes you can get them apart. I took my manifold to be skimmed this morning and talking to the chap there he thought it would do more harm than good to try and get the two manifolds apart as there was no sign of a leak, so once it is skimmed we should be good to go. As regards the exhaust studs in the manifold he thought they could be servicable with a clean up but where the stud goes in to the manifold there could be a potential to shear off on tightening, so rather than take a chance we decided to go for broke and replace them, not an easy job but thought it best.
As regards the gasket between the manifolds, looking at the parts book I think it is just stainless steel with no gasket. I have received a drawing from James at the Rootes Archive and have got a quote from a manufacturer. I hope you are sitting down, the price including delivery and VAT comes to £72, but if you have no choice what can you do.
Hope the above helps. Good Luck. Malcolm
 
Hello Panky , Malcolm ,
Thanks for quick answer . She (Gertrude after me Mum) has a Weber carb 34ICH . The angle is as should be parrallel with the ground , pic just taken at an angle . Attached is pic of the PVR? in bits . Good idea to blank off the other at the manifold , also the one on the flange , it was just an open hole and maybe didn't help my carburation !? Slow going but will let you know how it works (hopefully) when all back together . I do have another manifold (Thanks to Trev) but proving extremely unwilling to let go with rusted in bolts with knackered heads , might have to cut em off and hope the two manifolds knock apart !
I did take my manifolds apart and the surfaces look like there's been a leak although never smelt any obnoxious fumes in the cab . So will just clean up and put a smear of exhaust paste on .
Thanks also Malcolm , I see you are quite a youngster at Commers !! Must make me a mere embrio as only had mine for just over 5 years and only done 1700miles as always difficult to start and quite often runs terrible ! Fitted a High Torque starter so turns over and startes OK now but won't run now where it used to fairly well ish on occasions . Thankfully the deflector between my manifolds is in good shape and made of brass IF I get the other donated manifolds apart and the deflector is good , you are welcome to it if it helps !
let you know if I manage to seperate them etc . Thanks for help Panky and Malcolm
 

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