Help! Commer engine in a Singer Vogue?

J

JimPedlow

New Member
Hi everyone,

I'm a mechanical apprentice with very little experience in classic cars so please forgive my stupid questions...


I've just brought a Singer Vogue with what apears to be a 1725cc Commer engine in it, I was wondering if anyone could help me Identify it?

I'm keen to do everything I can to keep this engine running as efficiently as possible for as long as possible, so if anyone has any idea what manuals I need or has advice on how to keep it running sweet - I'd really appreciate that.

Best regards and many thanks in advance

Jim Pedlow
 

Attachments

  • Engine Bay.png
    Engine Bay.png
    628.8 KB · Views: 23
  • Engine Serial Number.png
    Engine Serial Number.png
    581.2 KB · Views: 21
Hi Jim and welcome:)
The Rootes range of medium cars (and vans) at that time all used the same basic engine, some with iron head and the sporty models with aluminium heads. The Vogue had the iron head version, pretty much the same as the Commer van, and was upgraded to 1725cc in the mid sixties so your engine is most probably the correct one. The 1725 has a five bearing crank so stronger than the smaller three bearing ones that came before. Below pinched from



'Singer Vogues Series I to IV had only one chassis plate, made of aluminium,which was riveted to the bonnet slam panel . It was rectangular and measured3½” long x 11/8” wide. This plate records not only the engine and chassis number, but it also records the colour code (up to 3 digits long). The early cars – Series I, II and III, had chassis plates whose lower left-hand corner was ‘cut off’ diagonally, this was to ensure that the apprentices, who riveted the plates to the cars, didn’t fit them on upside down. A small, but neat idea which must have saved a lot of time on the production line.'


Very simple and tough lumps they are too and as far as engines go easy to work on. There is a workshop manual for the vans in our download section for information on the engine.

Downloads

Documents for the comemr including free Commer Manual
www.commervanfan.co.uk www.commervanfan.co.uk

For you actual car there are Haynes and other manuals out there for example


But you car could be a series four which has the 1725 engine but the rest of the mechanicals should be covered in the above.

Good luck with your project and keep us up to date on progress, we love Rootes stuff not just the vans. Some more photos would be nice:)
 
Panky said:
Hi Jim and welcome:)
The Rootes range of medium cars (and vans) at that time all used the same basic engine, some with iron head and the sporty models with aluminium heads. The Vogue had the iron head version, pretty much the same as the Commer van, and was upgraded to 1725cc in the mid sixties so your engine is most probably the correct one. The 1725 has a five bearing crank so stronger than the smaller three bearing ones that came before.
Very simple and tough lumps they are too and as far as engines go easy to work on. There is a workshop manual for the vans in our download section for information on the engine.

Downloads

Documents for the comemr including free Commer Manual
www.commervanfan.co.uk www.commervanfan.co.uk

For you actual car there are Haynes and other manuals out there for example


Good luck with your project and keep us up to date on progress, we love Rootes stuff not just the vans. Some more photos would be nice:)
Click to expand...
Hi, thanks a lot for the warm welcome and the info — really helpful!

That clears up a lot for me. Sounds like the engine in my Vogue is spot on for the era and model, and I’m glad to hear it shares so much with the Commer vans. It’s reassuring to know it’s a tough and simple engine, especially as I’m just getting stuck into the mechanical side of things

I’ll definitely check out that workshop manual in the download section and grab one of those Haynes manuals too.

— really appreciate the support from this group!

Cheers,

Jim


IMG_1854.jpegIMG_1854.jpegIMG_1854.jpeg
 
One thing I would advise is to replace the battery leads as they look a bit light, and those quick release clamps are only really suitable for caravan leisure batteries that only take a small steady drain.
 
Hi Jim.
Re the engine. It looks like the oil level dip stick is on the oil filter/Distributor side of your engine. The Commer engine dip stick was on the carburettor side of the engine. So I would say you have a standard compression Rootes engine not a low compression Commer one.

I don’t recognise the engine number so it is probably an exchange. This website gives good guidance on engine numbering of Rootes cars. http://sa.hillman.org.au/TT_EngineNo.htm

You could try a compression test to see what readings you get. But I’m not sure what the numbers would be for a low, std and high compression engine. It probably depends on the degree of wear and how well built they are.

You can also take the cylinder head off to check the type of pistons you have and what the bore size is. But that is a big job and probably not worth it is it’s working ok.
 
JJ Autosleeper said:
Hi Jim.
Re the engine. It looks like the oil level dip stick is on the oil filter/Distributor side of your engine. The Commer engine dip stick was on the carburettor side of the engine. So I would say you have a standard compression Rootes engine not a low compression Commer one.

I don’t recognise the engine number so it is probably an exchange. This website gives good guidance on engine numbering of Rootes cars. http://sa.hillman.org.au/TT_EngineNo.htm

You could try a compression test to see what readings you get. But I’m not sure what the numbers would be for a low, std and high compression engine. It probably depends on the degree of wear and how well built they are.

You can also take the cylinder head off to check the type of pistons you have and what the bore size is. But that is a big job and probably not worth it is it’s working ok.
Click to expand...
Wow, okay, thanks for reaching out

The rockercover also sounds like its made of of tin or something lightweight - which leads me to believe its not a Commer PB engine.

Thank you for your suggestion - a compression test would be the definitive way to know for sure.

This lump still remains a bit of a mystery..
 
Any of the Rootes cast iron head Audax engine rocker covers should fit this car’s cast iron Rootes engine. I suspect they may have used one this with a tie in tab for a carb spring. The give away to me is the oil dip stick position which is the same as Alpines and Rapiers .
Low compression engines had a dipstick the other side. No idea why. Maybe so you can tell them apart.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top